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Former secretary of state for communities and local government, John Denham, who is speaking at this week's LGA conference is now shadowing his old job. Michael Burton catches up with him for his views on his old department, Total Place and localism. Just three months ago, John Denham was secretary of state for communities and local government, a member of the Cabinet with the trappings of power, the car, the advisers, the cocoon of the civil service. Now in opposition and shadowing his old job, he is able to look more objectively on a post he held for less than 12 months. We meet on the set of the Local Government Channel in west London, where we are together recording a clip for its programme shown at the LGA conference this week, and a chat afterwards. He is also addressing the conference. A former Hampshire councillor and third sector worker, Mr Denham was re-elected in May to his Southampton seat on a reduced majority, knowing it was highly likely Labour would lose power and he, in turn, would be out of office. As the father of a five-year-old, losing his previous job did have its advantages. He recalls: ‘Initially, it was a huge relief to get my life back. Before, a normal day would start an hour or two before getting into the office by nine, and working late into the evening. ‘But, the point was not so much the hours. It was the constant pressure. Little of what we did was trivial. MPs also put in long hours but the sense of having to get everything right is much less.' His CLG post was his second Cabinet job [after innovation, universities and skills] and he believes the department punched beneath its weight. ‘The CLG had too limited a view of itself and often didn't see itself as a player in government, and did not see itself as a policy-maker,' he says. ‘Local government needs a department which is more than just a channel of resources.' He believes the Total Place agenda, in particular, gave it inroads into other Whitehall departments and the policy arena, and adds: ‘We proved to the CLG that it had influence, and I think it will be reluctant to lose that. On Total Place, social care and climate change, I argued the CLG case and, indeed, Total Place came out of the CLG.' Mr Denham was an enthusiast of the Total Place agenda – although recognising its name might be less popular with the new government, he says, ‘let's not get hung-up on labels', but admits it was already on the starting blocks when he arrived at the CLG last June. ‘I realised bringing resources together locally made sense. I hadn't noticed Total Place in the 2009 pre-Budget report, but found it was there when I arrived at the CLG. ‘There is an old Chinese proverb which says a good idea has 1,000 fathers and, in this case, lots of people came to it with their own ideas. ‘The main thing was that it was owned by Cabinet ministers. When I was in charge, Ed Balls [education], Alan Johnson [health], and Liam Byrne [Treasury] all supported Total Place.' He continues: ‘Had we stayed in power, we would have moved ahead with the March Budget proposals such as the single offer, and we would be inviting bids. ‘There would have been real steps forward and we would have seen mergers of staff on PCT and councils, and real change on the ground. While it's true one doesn't need to be told what to do by a minister, one does need health, education and police on board. ‘Without them, it won't work. Unless there is real drive from every government department, the danger is they'll shrink back into themselves.' Mr Denham fears that the agenda is now slipping from the new coalition government's priorities. ‘There are two challenges – can the CLG get other government departments engaged, and will local government get the powers to make it happen?' He adds: ‘I'm not clear if ministers are working together. I see no signs of Andrew Lansley [health], Michael Gove [education], or Theresa May [Home Office] taking the slightest interest in Total Place. And that worries me. Nor have I seen CLG ministers unambiguously support Total Place. The Whitehall networks are still there, but won't work without ministerial support. Without real leadership at ministerial level, it will depend on local relationships, and that won't be enough to make it fly. ‘The big test will be the Decentralisation and Localism Bill, to see if it includes Total Place powers. I want to see the ideas behind Total Place come into practice, and local government to have the powers to lead transformation.' He says the pattern so far has yet to settle. ‘We're not yet clear of the full picture. There may be several blueprints,' he says. ‘The health or education view of localism doesn't necessarily fit in with the local government view, but what we need is a coherent philosophy, not different philosophies from different departments.' On a separate issue, Mr Denham defends his contentious decision to press ahead with unitaries in Devon, Suffolk and Norfolk, now dropped by the Government after judicial appeals. ‘I thought I made the right decision. I'd hoped judges would not set something aside which had been debated and agreed in parliament – and it's worrying they did.' Apart from his shadow brief, Mr Denham is also on the campaign team for Ed Miliband to be the next Labour Party leader, whom he sees as having ‘an instinctive radical approach'. And as for his elusive former leader, he says: ‘I've not seen Gordon Brown since the election. But I believe history will be kind to him'.

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